Fonnie Filden: 2011

Andrew Fries
IF the death of the human is natural AND I cook him/her all the way through, is cannibalism okay with the Bible. I'm looking for scriptural evidence if you disagree.

· · September 2 at 12:32pm via mobile · Privacy:

You and 2 others like this.
- Mitchell Avery Lets start eatin'!!!
  September 2 at 12:33pm · · 1 person
- Joey Arnold One time I was in Africa and I murdered this guy, and I said, "Hey everybody, dinner is on me. Anybody want a piece?" Ok. So, anyways, is this question dependant on the condition that humanistic death is only merely purely exactly simply just physical or natural or materialistic or non-supernaturalistic? Ok. So, what do you mean by that? Do you mean, "If a human didn't have a soul (like animals don't have souls I think) then can we eat a dead human?" If all dogs don't go to Heaven, it will probably be due to a lack of a heart (soul).
  September 2 at 12:53pm ·
- Joey Arnold This question isn't about murder or killing is it? It is simply about what we are allowed to eat, right? If a person ate pig all his life and was a pig, could we eat that pig, that human pig? The Bible talks about unclean things. The question might be about whether a dead is unclean. The OT gives a list of animals that are dirty. So, are humans dirty? Better yet, some will say that the NT says that it is now ok to eat unclean things or whatever. I would to love to see more debates concerning these topics. Maybe I should google these things. By the way, I love it when you cook things. If we were dying on an island, I'd let you treat me, wine me, dine me, fine me, cut me, sue me, cook me, stir me, serve me, eat me, and save some of me for later as left overs, dead or alive.
  September 2 at 1:01pm ·
- Josh Navarro Wouldn't wanna make any religious folk question their faith.. or realize the downside to ones religion..this will be the end of the world because they will all go nuts
  September 2 at 1:14pm · · 1 person
- Welky Hoffman You are talking about cooking.. That is not cannibalism, if you eat it, then it is. As humans we do not follow what God states in His word(the bible).. Isn't our bodies the temple of the Holy Spirit? Then why we have to decorate it with tattoos, ratings etc. Just saying!
  September 2 at 1:22pm · · 1 person
- Kaylee Anderson can em up
  September 2 at 1:27pm · · 1 person
- David Kawika Smith There a scripture were these guys get traped in theyre city as part of the lord taking them down. Anyway while they were trapped in the city they ran out of food and started to eat each other. I believe it said that the lord detest that evil. I think. I only read it once I cant remember where and I could have some of the facts wrong
  September 2 at 1:32pm · · 1 person
- Joey Arnold We have a choice here. We can look at what the Bible does say, or we can poke at the things that are not exactly, specifically, directly, precisely, totally there (the so-called grey areas). The Bible emphasizes on loving others. So, is cooking and eating people lovely? Is it loving? Those might be some of the questions we could ask. We could try to backward-apply the cannibalism back into the principles of the Bible. If the Bible is full of cookie shapes, cutter, we can try to fit the cannibalism cookie into one of those shapes, molds, folds. Or we can look at the fact that the Bible might not directly talk about cannibalism. The Bible might not talk directly about smoking either, or obeying traffic light laws, etc.
  September 2 at 1:47pm ·
- Valarie Carter I know this has nothing to do with the right or wrong of this issue, but just so you know, people of Papua New Guinea who have practiced cannibalism have contracted a disease that is related to mad cow disease.
  September 2 at 1:48pm · · 2 people
- Michele Croteau Smart I want to know who you plan on dining on? : )
  September 2 at 2:02pm · · 2 people
- Joey Arnold If we are God's temples, God's houses, God's church, God's body, then is it ok to eat a part of that? The mad-cow-like disease is a connected issue. Good point. Andrew Fries, who are you going to cook? I am Green Oatmeal, Oh Oatmeal. You are what you eat or do or say or believe or think or whatever. I wonder if those cannibals wouldn't get any diseases if they ate Oatmeal people, or really healthy people? If people are healthy, does that make it more ok for us to cook them, eat them, play with them?
  September 2 at 2:20pm ·
- Andrew Fries ‎@everyone - look people, I just wanna know if I'm kinda hungry and a dude dies in front of me, is God going to be upset if I cook him up and eat him?
  
  @Joey - don't complicate things! It's really a simple thing man! And as far as if it's loving or not, I think if the dude gives me permission and he doesn't have any family that opposes, I feel like that would cover that.
  
  @David - nice work, please do.d me the reference. :)
  September 2 at 2:33pm · · 2 people
- Andrew Fries ‎@David - find*
  September 2 at 2:36pm ·
- Ronald Gilden Funny question. So, if the Bible told you not to eat something, you would submit to it?
  September 2 at 3:00pm · · 3 people
- Joey Arnold Andrew, I agree. So, if we were on an island, would you let me eat you? This is almost like the issue on divorce. In some cases, you have to get a divorce. In other situations, you may have to eat somebody. Rahab lied about the spies and was rewarded. David murdered Goliath. I am ok with the cooking people thing. Every situation is different. Pray for wisdom to make the most of each day. Maybe when you are real old, you will be able to tell your kids about the time when you had to eat your friend.
  September 2 at 4:56pm ·
- Ben Fries enlightening subject
  September 2 at 5:38pm · · 1 person
- Joey Arnold ‎@David: I take the scriptural reference to mean that God may hate meaningless or uncontrollable or un-purposeful or unpredictable cannibalism. Because God might be ok with "Acceptable Cannibalism." It may have simply been not God's will at that time for cannibalism. It may have been due to God's judgement, His wrath. Maybe they deserved being trapped. Maybe it was what God wanted. Maybe the cannibalism was a way of cheating death because some of them were trying to escape that trap. Maybe God wanted them to die. The cannibalism may have been their way of saying, "God, we are not going to die. We believe in Darwin's survival of the fittest. We will out-wait this famine of death. We will eat our way out of this!" Maybe the people that were eaten were unwilling participants. Maybe murder was involved (eaten alive). Stupid Cannibalism is stupid. God hates stupid cannibalism. But smart cannibalism is what Andrew Fries is talking about. It's what's for dinner. Beef. The other white white white meat. Good to the last drop. You can have it your way. Just think outside of the box. Just do it. There has to be such a think as Acceptable Cannibalism within certain parameters.
  September 2 at 5:45pm ·
- Joey Arnold Ben, do you believe in Acceptable Cannibalism?
  September 2 at 5:47pm ·
- Joe Speigle hahaha miss you andrew.
  September 2 at 5:56pm · · 1 person
- Joey Arnold ‎........ "Situational Ethics" ...........
  September 2 at 5:57pm ·
- Ben Fries if I can believe in acceptable sin I can.. but I don't. I don't know the specifics but I'd think that God said something to the effect f not to partake of human flesh for it is unclean. o can't clean it eough whn it unclean, it is just unclean. would not do it with a mouse, I wouldot do it in a house, I would not eat another human, I would not eat it for I am :)
  
  now as for the existance of acceptale sin all together. It's too bad for Andrew that he didn't know our Dad in his younger years. He'd slap him in the head for even thinking about it xD heck no! as far as any of us is concerned sin is a sin as sin is a sin. That may not be the correct answer, but as far as I'm concerned it is a sin (and an insult toward God, as if your questioning your ruler/ maker) too even try to work around it. That's just my 2 sence.... that's all I got though I'll be needing them back :/
  September 2 at 6:00pm ·
- David Kawika Smith ‎@ joey: im going to ignor what you said because of what I found.
  
  @ Andrew: so in leviticus 26: 27-29 and in deuteronomy 28: 49-58 it talks about what God says He will do to punish the israelites if they disobey His word. And these verses talk about cannibalism. And this is cool I only just found this conection because of your question. In jeremiah 19: 9 this is jeremiah is prophesying to the people about the fall of jerusalem where he prophesies exactly what it says in the other books and tell them this will happen to them if they continue to sin. In jeremiah 52 it happenes cool..... Sucks for tgem but cool that it all fits like that.
  September 2 at 6:09pm ·
- David Kawika Smith In leviticuz God says that they will resort to eating the flesh of theyre childern and he will abhor them for it. The bible only ever refers to cannibalism as a punishment something that God detests. Anyway it comes God doesnt like it. If it was ok he wouldnt make it a punishment
  September 2 at 6:13pm ·
- Joey Arnold I believe Romans says that both sin and the law was established (like a mirror) to show us our imperfections, that we aren't perfect. What is sin to me is anything that isn't perfect. Since the rise of the fall of mankind, I believe this universe was put on a sin curse, a spell, which keeps us from that garden, that holiness. Solomon (in Ecclesiastes) writes that everything is meaningless apart from God. Farther, Isaiah 64:6 says, "All our righteousness is as filthy rags." I take that to mean, that in some really weird way, everything is sin because sin comes from a sinner. If we are sinners then we sin. If you were a garbage man, you would produce garbage. Genesis talks about reproducing after your own kind. The New Testament talks about that, too, that we reproduce like fruits, that we will sow what we reap. We should go after the mind of Christ. In some kind of weird way, everything is sin. That is why we need Jesus. We cannot produce righteousness by ourselves. We are nothing without Him. However, I also believe in situational ethics. Ethics, principles, truths, God's Word, is eternal, unchanging. However, situations are fluent, constant, changing, and full of variables. We have to apply the ethics to the situations. Andrew Fries is simply talking about situational ethics. Unless if we want to dive into the issues of what is clean or unclean. Apart from some of those issues, I believe, "Would you like fries with that, Sam I Am, in a box, on the street?"
  September 2 at 6:15pm ·
- Joey Arnold ‎@David, Leviticus also says that Pork is unclean. Don't work the Sabbath. The Old Testament is full of around 613 laws of the do's and don't. So, if we choose to follow some of it, then why not all of it? This is where things get tricky, right? You are also diving into looking at the Bible pretty literal or exact, now, which could also get really tricky, too, right? The OT is full of these details.................
  September 2 at 6:23pm ·
- David Kawika Smith I think if you keep the jesus mind set and you were in a situation where cannibalism is an option you would find yourself fasting and praying instead of eating your friend.
  September 2 at 6:24pm · · 1 person
- Ben Fries I would say more, but 1 my wireless keybord needs new batteries :/ and 2 I gotta go to a church campout :/ I'll keep an eye on what the conclusion is when I get back! Andrew, Thad says hi :D
  September 2 at 6:27pm · · 1 person
- Joey Arnold ‎@David, Leviticus may have also been referring to the different details of Israel's Baal worship. In other words, Israel was sinning. They were doing bad things. It wasn't just that Israel may have resorted to some cannibalism. There was also children-sacrifices, in order to satisfy the Greek or ancient or Egyptian or Canaanite gods or deities or whatever. In other words, cannibalism was an ingredient that was intermixed and tied and stuck in there with all of those other sins, conditions, situations, or what have you. It is tough to just scalpel grab the cannibalism issue and pull it out of the context of Israel's sinful history. However, that is what Andrew Fries question is all about. His question is separate and clearly isolated from the details and specifics and all the sins of the Israelites. Situational Ethics would have to allow for an alternative since things might be a little bit different nowadays, because we aren't exactly Israel, are we? We aren't Jews, are we? We are Christians, right? Isn't there a bit of a difference, besides the fact that Christians or Jews were drafted into the vine or into each other, right?
  September 2 at 6:41pm ·
- Joey Arnold ‎Andrew Fries: if you eat a dead person, then you can only bury their bones into the ground. We can argue about biblical proper burials. We can argue about unclean things. We can argue about following everything in the Old Testament. But we can't argue about starving to death, can we? Would God want us to starve to death? What if the manna (see Exodus) that were given to the wilderness-stricken Israelites were really dead humans, animals, or angels, or God/Jesus Himself (Communion or the Passover Meal)?
  September 2 at 6:53pm ·
- David Kawika Smith The sacificeing of childern was on them not a punishment which the bible states God used canibalism as a punishment. The baal thing that you are saying doesnt count because that was the disobedience that lead to the punishment. The cannibalism was not part of the baal thing your mixing them..... Dont do that.
  September 2 at 6:54pm ·
- Joey Arnold David, I didn't say that. I was speaking generically. The connection between the crime and the punishment is interwoven. That cannibalism situation is still very specific and technical and very hard to apply. How would we apply that to ourselves? It would be tough. I am defending Andrew Fries position with my life, still. You can eat me if you will. I never said that children sacrifices was punishment, exactly. I am talking about sin. Sin causes punishment. It's a dominoes effect. It is the butterfly effect. It's the snowball effect. Sin causes punishment. Rebellion (in the mist of punishment) can cause more sin. That sin can then enable more punishment, chastisement or discipline. It is a loop, a hamster wheel. The Old Testament is full of these Lion King's Circle of Life loops or circles or wildernesses or traps. That is why you can't just make a commandment that simply says, "Thou shalt not eat people." It is not exactly there. That is not the eleventh commandment. David, you misinterpreted me. It reminds me of the issue of murder vs. killing. God says, "Thou shalt not murder." God doesn't say that he is against capital punishment or against the times when God commanded Israel to kill men, women, children, animals, everything. Solomon writes, "There's a time for everything. A time for this and a time for that. And a time for eating people." God is against stupid cannibalism. God is against murder. But what about smart Acceptable Cannibalism due to Situational Ethics? Why starve to death? I like chicken. I like KFC, finger-licking good. Hmm hmm better.
  September 2 at 7:10pm ·
- David Sheppard Haha, I love Ronnie's post.
  September 2 at 7:30pm · · 2 people
- Joey Arnold Dear David Sheppard, what, I write too much? Dam, people aren't kosher? Kosher means clean? Clean means not unclean? What? Where's Ronnie? Wait, who's Ronnie? Haha, you mean Ronnie Gilden? Where is he? Let me at him? Is he for real? Is he real? Or are you just remembering the good old Facebook Torah-debate days? Ok. I think I said enough. I believe that there might be exceptions to the kosher rule. Kind of. Siituational Ethics is the exception.
  September 2 at 7:35pm ·
- Joey Arnold Hey, Andrew Fries: you should share this with the world. Why is it on custom? You know the settings? You should make it viewable to everybody so that I can find this from my other FB accounts, right? Then I can read Ronnie's comment. To @Ronnie Gilden, of course I'd submit to it, but only on the condition that you unblock me first (lest I devolve back to my canibalistic ways).
  September 2 at 7:46pm ·
- David Kawika Smith All I meant was you twisted your words maybe it comes from typing these full length book you call comments. show me a place where God commands someone to eat someone. Yes theres a difference between killing and murder, but I dont see how you can say God wouldnt be against it. And plus no matter where you are even if it came to eating dirt (or what you find in it) you could always find something else to eat and I think that God would like that better then you eating his child. Look at it this way with these key facts we know about God he says all poeple are his childern. He loves us enough to give his son for us. I thinks he loves us to much to say something like that is ok. Its far to sick and tramatic.
  September 2 at 8:00pm ·
- Cheri Gilden What amuses me is this all sparked by someone asking if deer was kosher!
  September 2 at 10:00pm · · 1 person
- Andrew Fries ‎@David Smith - I don't know David, there are definitely some days where I'm more than a little curious about eating people and I'm not sure there's quite enough evidence to back up the Lord saying it's a no-no. ;) And don't mind Joey, he gets people worked up for the fun of it. Ask Lorrie Davis about our game of RISK at the last Young Adult Retreat... Anyway, good job being a Berean.
  
  @Joey - Nice work. Just make sure your spirit is positive. And I was about to die, I WOULD totally let you consume my lifeless husk once I depart from it. But once the resurrection happens, all bets are off.
  
  @Ronnie & David Sheppard - Let me start off by saying I shouldn't respond to such obvious baiting but since I feel like you're asking my opinion, I'll give it to you in the hopes that civility will win out over differences in opinion. That being said, I would listen to the dietary restrictions unless he told me later that the real things I need to worry about is love - love for Him and love for people. I'm not perfect but I can assure you that my heart is the Lord's and He's giving me a heart for others. The Law was not meant to be a burden but a blessing so maybe one day He'll convict my heart to share that blessing with you both in that fashion but until then, I love you not in spite of our difference but because of them. I respect you both for your devotion to the Word and your convictions, keep living out your faith. :]
  September 2 at 10:04pm ·
- Andrew Fries ‎@Joey - IF I was dying*
  
  @Bingy - I miss you too brother. :]
  September 2 at 10:08pm ·
- Joey Arnold I think God hates cannibalism more than divorce or murder or ethnic cleansing or suicide or homosexuality or white lies or what am I saying, really? Of course cannibalism should be avoided at all costs. Divorce should be avoided at all costs. There are places in the Bible that says that God hates divorce. There are other places in the Bible that says God is madly in love with divorce so much to even make Him want to do things to do it. Must I say more? Have you noticed that I'm in love with the art of emphasizing, in analogises, in painting a picture of God and you and divorce all in a bed. There was this SNL music Video with Justin Timberlake, Lady Gaga, and the other guy, called Three Way. The same goes for cannibalism. Apart from a few scriptural references, the Bible doesn't talk directly about cannibalism because it is not a root issue. The root issues stem from love. In the Pirates of the Caribbean, there's this compass that directs us to what we want. Our hearts are compasses. We should want God. Our Johnny Depp Compass hearts can journey the seven seas on the quest for the fountain of youth. I mean the fountain on the God. If we stem from that, then we will begin to make to situational ethnic wisdom calls even in the mist of cannibalism. When we get up into Heaven, God will explain to you what I mean by everything that I say. You'll be surprised when you get up there. I mark my words on that. It's because we are born in this curse. Because we are born blind, it is so tough to understand these variables. I don't like arguing. Everything thinks I do. Everybody thinks I like writing books. I love peace. I love people. But I hate it when people are left in the dark, left to their own depravity, their own too much spare time on their hands that may lead to people eating each other. STOP EATING ONE ANOTHER. Physically, you should let me eat you if I am starving. Spiritually, we should eat off each other's wisdom, also, right? I just want to spread truth to the world because I am Oh Oatmeal. Eat me. Then tell God you're sorry for eating me, less he sends you to purgatory for committing such situational ethic nonsense or not.
  September 2 at 10:49pm ·
- Ronald Gilden It absolutely was a personal question and I appreciate your response. I definitely see your perspective, but with one further question - according to 1 John 5:2-3, how are we to act out our love towards God and man?
  
  And for what it's worth, God clearly indicates what is food and what isn't food, as found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14. David Smith is well founded in pointing out the numerous prophetic verses predicting that God's people would indulge in cannibalism during their lowest, most catastrophic times of judgment. It's also worth mentioning that the historian Josephus records this happening when the Romans sieged Jerusalem for years, taking place within four decades after Jesus' death.
  September 3 at 12:37pm · · 1 person
- Andrew Fries ‎@Ronnie - To answer your question, the scripture says that loving God means obeying his commands.
  
  Hear me out on this though, when Jesus was tested by the Pharisees and Sadducees and they asked him what was the greatest commandment, his reply was that all Law and the Prophets hang on simply loving the Lord and loving your neighbors. He said that those were the things that mattered. If I take both your scripture from 1 John that says to love God is to obey his commands, and my scripture from Matthew which says the greatest command is to love him, if you take it at face value it just seems circular. But when I stop to think about why John would write something that would seem so circular, I have to conclude that he didn't - that there must be a deeper meaning then following the Levitical commands. It's my opinion that God's commands spoken about in 1 John are the commands given to us through the Spirit, which, if we are truly listening and allowing to lead our lives, will always lead us towards acts of love towards the Father and towards our fellow man. The Spirit is our counselor who teaches us and convicts us, and so I believe that by listening to the convictions of the Spirit, I am following His commands.
  
  I hope that helps to clear up my perspective more.
  September 3 at 2:42pm ·
- Aaron Koch This conversation happened to come up on my page and I must say that I really enjoyed reading through it. Andrew, your responses, perspective, and respect for others during the course of this is great to see. Keep it up and I wish you all the best.
  September 3 at 4:45pm · · 2 people
- Joey Arnold Ronnie, where's the application?
  September 3 at 4:54pm ·
- Ronald Gilden Andrew, I admire your find in Matthew 22 (also in Mark 12 and Luke 10). Note the Pharisee’s question though – what is the greatest commandment? Out of 613 commandments found in the Torah, Jesus cites the same ones that the Pharisees themselves uphold as the greatest, in fact, they recited it at least twice a day. His language is a little different than how you worded it. The Law and the Prophets don’t ‘simply’ hang on loving God and others, but ON the two greatest commandments – found in the Law themselves (Deut. 6 and Lev. 19) – hang the rest of the Law and the Prophets. And note that the word here to ‘hang’ means to support, to uphold. If the two greatest commandments support the rest of the Torah, how much more then can you read John’s words in 1 John literally, at face value? In the first century, Jesus and John’s hearers would have considered no other commandments than the ones already written down in the Torah. No offense, but your interpretation of 1 John 5 is an example of eisegesis, not exegesis.
  
  Attempting to keep this on topic, it is worth noting that in some cultures that exist still today (Papua New Guinea, for one), it is considered a loving act to eat your parents and family members so that their spirits will persevere. Again, good thing John prescribes exactly how to love one’s neighbor – keep God’s commandments – instead of us trying to figure it out on our own.
  September 3 at 6:06pm · · 1 person
- Andrew Fries ‎@Ronnie - Again, I admire your devotion to the Word. You have obviously studied more than I have. And nice job calling me out on exegesis bit - I admit I was unprepared for your question and had not the time for in-depth study. I should have studied more before attempting to answer on a subject you are so well versed in. I won't be so impatient again.
  
  But thank you for giving me an opportunity to work on the second greatest commandment. I hope to see you around the corps for more discussion in the future.
  September 3 at 7:24pm ·
- Andrew Fries ‎@Aaron - Koch! Hey man, great to hear from you! It's been a long time. I'm probably going to be in Eugene this coming week sometime, I'd love to meet up with you for some coffee if you're around?
  September 3 at 8:14pm ·
- Cheri Gilden So Andrew, was your original question answered (based on scripture)?
  September 3 at 9:02pm ·
- Aaron Koch Oh man, I would love to, but I will be in the woods climbing trees this coming week. Other than that, I am working in portland, so let me know if you're around town.
  September 3 at 10:50pm ·
- Andrew Fries ‎@Cheri - "God clearly indicates what is food and what isn't food, as found in Leviticus 11 and Deuteronomy 14" I don't think humans are on the food list. Although they didn't quite make the non-food list either. So no, I don't think I got a clear answer but I'm leaning towards it not being a good idea. Lucky for you guys. ;)
  
  @Aaron - Oh, I thought you were still in Eugene! I live in Portland, give me a call when you've got some free time.
  September 4 at 6:20am ·
- Joey Arnold hi Andrew Fries lol. Ok, so I think the Bible emphasizes on "Normal Things:" as in general rules for normal situations, for everyday application. Usually, humans won't be on the food list. However, in hypothetical situations, or really tough situations, anything goes. Ok, maybe not anything, but I think we shouldn't have double-standards. In other words, Fonnie Filden might be reading the Bible too literally. If we were to literally read the Bible, we may be led to build Noah's Ark. We would try crossing the Red Sea with a staff. We would jump into Lion's Dens. We would lie to Rahab prostitutes. We wouldn't cut our Samson hair. We would talk to donkeys. We would dunk our head into the river seven times to remove leprosy.
  about a minute ago ·

Andrew Fries Yup.

Saturday at 6:33pm · · 1 person

Joey Arnold the difference between pork meat and human meat is relative, minimal.... the difference between vengeful murder and justified capital punishment killing is as the difference between selfish cannibalism and rare biblical survival love tactics of eating a loved one in the rarest of situations which the Bible fully supports....... never mind that the Bible frowns upon dumb cannibalism

2 seconds ago ·